Juniors This Weekend

[skater mum]

Well, the matches I know about are:-

U12 Div 1 Are at home to Peterborough Saturday - Face off 4.15 ish

U16's are away to Cardiff on Sunday

Good Luck to everyone:clap:

[salfy]

U10's away at Romford. BIG GAME!

[spanky#43]

U10's won a great match 7-4. My boy got an assist and spirit of the game. I'm so proud. :clap: :clap: Well done to all the team, coaches and supporters.

[Figo]

16s went to Cardiff yesterday. We lost 7 -2 but no disgrace, a fine performance against the team that lifted the league title yesterday. All 16s who were available played which was good to see.

On a personal note, I would like to say thank you and well done to Alison Anders who managed her last game yesterday after 6 years of managing various teams.

Also, well done and thanks to 16s head coach Andy Linton - on a personal note, thank you for the opportunity you have given my boy and the faith you have shown in him - he has grown as player this season (IMO) and the chances he has had with the 16s have played a big part in that.

Well done to all the others juniors involved in games this weekend - understand the 10s and 12s were in FINE form.

[Stormin Man]

Yes, thanks Alison,:clap:

But who do we get to moan at for the rest of the season???:D

and who's managing the tournament???:huh:

and who's collecting the money every other week for pay to play wednesday's??
:closedeye

[skater mum]

The Under 12 Div 1 had a brilliant win on Saturday against Peterborough, winning a convincing 14 goals to 1.

Well done to Brooke who played in goal for the U12 Div 1 team for the first time.

[Catwoman]

16s went to Cardiff yesterday. We lost 7 -2 but no disgrace, a fine performance against the team that lifted the league title yesterday. All 16s who were available played which was good to see.

Also, well done and thanks to 16s head coach Andy Linton - on a personal note, thank you for the opportunity you have given my boy and the faith you have shown in him - he has grown as player this season (IMO) and the chances he has had with the 16s have played a big part in that.


Sorry Fiona, nothing personal, I have been mulling this over all day I have to say what I feel, I've kept quiet(ish) all season. It was a fine performance in Cardiff, as you say all the lads that went got ice time, but I would have thought on the last game of the season it would have been nice for ALL players to get equal ice time, after all it was probably a foregone conclusion that Cardiff would win and get the title. I am all for boys getting encouragement and improving themselves, but not when it's at the expense of others in that age group not getting ice time and valuable experience.It's not nice seeing your son on the bench for most of every game in the 16's when you have a whole line of 14's playing in preference. As there is no "B" team for the 16's, how are the others meant to get game experience when players are playing up all the time? I think Jim Knights was right when he coached the 19's earlier in the season, he wouldn't have players playing up if he had 3 lines of 19's. He said, "let them play in their own age group and we will play in ours". I know this has all been said before and there is no easy answer (unless you have teams in "A" and "B" league, as is what has happened in most of the other age groups this season) but at least I have got it off my chest and feel better for it!!

[Bubbs]

I think most players quit for one reason - they don't get to play enough - and that's usually caused by kids playing up and taking their places.

It really depends on what expectations we parents have of the club. I thought our clubs policy was to give all the lads a chance to play and have fun. I now think it's actually to win games at all costs.

The U16's objective this season was to retain "A" league status. Now, they could have done that by playing mostly U16's. For example, they won at Solent and Gosport with only 1 U14. Despite that, more and more U14's were picked as the season progressed, with the result that U16's were left sitting on the bench for game after game, and as a result those boys quit.

Whilst I accept that playing up could be good in some cases (near the end of the season, injury cover, development of very talented players) I think it was overdone this year for this age group.

It's not just one problem wth one age group either. Last weekend, one of our junior teams won 15-1. I heard that even with that lead, the coach still never gave line 3 players much ice time. That's just not right. You cannot expect to keep any enthusiasm for ice hockey if they just stand and watch others play.

I doubt if anything will change next season. It's just a shame that some players and parents have to put up with a policy that they don't agree with because the only other options are quitting or travelling to distant clubs.

I have heard that other clubs have a "no playing up" policy. Perhaps we should adopt that here? Mind you, some players left because they weren't allowed to play up. I guess the "no playing up" policy would let people know were they stand.

Can open - worms everywhere!

Cheers,

Bubbs.

[Figo]

A few responses Catwoman:

- team selection is down to Coaches -any issues you have should be raised via the mangaer directly with the coach and I expect you have done this already. I don't know what the answers are to the age old problem you have raised. Its not my place on this forum to defend the coaches decision or my childs selection - (in my opinion his current on ice ability and committment does that). That said, it does hurt to know that he, like all of the 14s who played - was at Nick's hockey school last week to improve themselves - They all turned up to the extra training session at 10.30pm on Friday that all the 16s were invited to - He is also one of the few kids who STILL has a skating lesson every week and along with all of those 14s also does off ice work in his own time. Those boys take every second of ice that is available to them which is probably a major reason why they have improved - and it in turn is this that has probably gained them selection to bolster up the 16s squad which then leads to improvement. Its all a bit chicken and egg really......

- Did you know that at first, all the 14s declined to play in Cardiff at the weekend?? I can see both sides of this argument. Like you say - A league status retained, job done - hand over to the 16s and sit the 14s out.....that is what all those boys wanted (after a double header last weekend and 13 hours on ice for those who had attended the hockey school).

Guess what - furore followed that those "precious" 14s then weren't playing or making the trip to Cardiff ....so they did .....only now to be subjet to public criticism because having been selected to play.....they did - those kids seem to be in a no-win situation!!

Seems a case of damned because they turned up and played and damned if they hadn't made the trip.

Rest assured that if the game hadn't have been in Cardiff and had have been in MK those boys would not have played and the game would have been played by 16s only as there would have been no criticism for any of them being too up themselves to travel.

- equal ice time - difficult one ...... how do you give equal ice time with penalties kills and power plays?? Would it have been fair to play line 3 v a strong Cardiff PP line ?? I don't know ?? - I'm not a coach

Also. the only way that equal ice time happens is at U10 with the 2 minute buzzer......but even then line 1 get more 2 mins shifts as there are 20 shifts in a game and that doesn't divide neatly by 3 so line 1 always start both periods and therefore get more ice...... but at 16s you just can't work shifts with a buzzer - guys are taking first steps to senior hockey so need to learn about changing on the fly etc etc.

- the 14s have at times been on the other side of this - using my boy as an example - this is his 7th season playing hockey and he is still only 13....he has played line 3 for seasons and not got much ice - he has travelled to places like Gosport and played one short shift ..... we were in the club for ages before he played a league game but not eveyone remembers this as this was before a lot of the current 16s joined up. And please don't think just because he has played up this season its always been like that.....it hasn't - this is the first season he has ever played up for more than 1 game - he like the others have just worked and worked and worked to get to where they are ....

- I wish we could have had this discussion at the rink last night ? All I did to prompt this was to publicly acknowledge the support that the coach gave my boy - as Highlander pointed out in another post - most coaches don't get enough thank yous...... and I speak here as me - my own views and not as a club official.

- Finally, this is a MASSIVE weekend for the 14s and I think its a shame that they could be perceived as being criticised, publicly for playing last weekend when they are preparing to play two difficult games in Chelmsford and Guildford - 2 wins and the league title comes to MK .......Glad you feel better that it is off your chest but I'm a bit disappointed at your timing.......

Irrespective of the above, I truely hope that all parents of MK Storm Junior hockey players genuinely wish the 14s well this weekend and acknowledge what they have acheived this season irrespective of the results this weekend - and in keeping with the positive spirit of encouragement for all age groups good luck to the 10s in their Tournament in Bracknell this weekend and all the other teams playing this weekend.

Happy Easter !

[Catwoman]

I think if you read my post again I have not publicly criticised any u14 player for playing last weekend, I just think it was a shame all the players didn't get the ice time they deserve on the last game of the season. I did say it was nothing personal, I know your son and others work hard. I just have to accept it's club policy to play the best players and play up if need be, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. At the meeting at the start of the season we were told if they work hard, they will all get games. My son always puts in 100% when he is training, unfortunately we can't all afford to send them to hockey schools every holiday to improve. Bubbs has some very valid points in his post and I don't need to repeat them.
Of course I wish the 14's every success this weekend, it's great that we have a side that may clinch the league title and I wouldn't want to take any of that away from them. I have expessed my opinion, as you have yours. Thats why it's a free speech forum.

[Figo]

Cool !

[Highlander]

As far as I was aware (but I stand to be corrected) The coaches including Nick Poole made the decision to play the u14's in the Cardiff game.

One interesting question does spring to mind though; when is it appropriate for a group of children to decide that they are going to pick and choose the games they are going to play in, many without consulting their coach or even their parents??

I have to admit when I heard what was going on, I was less than happy especially as those same u14's had been given opportunities to both train up and play for the u16's all season long. I kept my opinion to myself, knowing that the coaches and parents when they were aware of the situation would resolve it and that is what happened.

The U14's have been an integral part of the U16's team all season and thus they did not prevent other U16's from playing. There have been several U16B team games throughout the season for fringe players to play in and show what they can do.

The U14's have earned their place in the U16's team and I have been impressed by their contribution, especially young Mitch Starkey who has been very solid in defence in every game he has played.


Good luck in your two games this weekend boys, but you won't need luck, just play your usual good standard of hockey listen to the coaches and you will win both games. (I feel it in my blood! ;) )

[Catwoman]

I have to admit when I heard what was going on, I was less than happy especially as those same u14's had been given opportunities to both train up and play for the u16's all season long. I kept my opinion to myself, knowing that the coaches and parents when they were aware of the situation would resolve it and that is what happened.

There have been several U16B team games throughout the season for fringe players to play in and show what they can do.

The several U16B games you are referring to were unfortunately only a few challenge games. This was due to other rinks not being able to secure ice time and also our ice time often being re-allocated to something more important, so we didn't get as many games as we were hoping for.
I make no secret of the fact that I didn't want to travel all the way to Cardiff if the 14's were playing, as I knew my son wouldn't get much ice time. I can cope with that, but not when you are making a 4 hour journey each way for it.This was made known to several people. My main gripe is that last Tuesday we were pleaded with to go to Cardiff as the 14's had said they didn't want to go and apparantly they could only get nine players. It wasn't until the day before that I had a text saying 14s were now playing but ice time would be guaranteed for everyone going. As I had booked the minibus for the trip, we went along. I was disappointed that having been told ice time would be guaranteed, certain players hardly got any shifts. As I stated in my first post, it wouldn't have hurt for them all to have equal time on the last game of the season. I accept the 14s are very good players, they have worked hard all season and helped the 16s win games. But I still don't agree that players should play up if there are 3 lines of the same age group available. I have accepted the coaches decision all season and shall continue to do so, it was just that last match which really got to me. I've had my say, I will say nothing more on the subject.

[Moose]

I have to say that i agree with catwoman,and Bubbs.
my own opinion is the same as jim knights.
why play up young 'uns when there are sufficient players in that age group to play.
I dont wish to upset people here,but i think it's outrageous that players are quitting hockey through lack of icetime
when there are players playing up out of their own age group teams,at the expense of older players.
it makes no sense to me at all.
i have no personal axe to grind with me not having a hockey playing son or daughter,
although my 3 year old grandson will be getting on ice shortly to learn to skate,
but i cant see any sense in the way this thing is being done at MK.
i know of an U19 who's now leaving the hockey through limited chance of progression.
what is the point in kids starting young,going through the juniors etc and then finding they have no future.
it's bloody crazy if you ask me.(not that you did;) )
no i'm always all for kids progressing through the ranks,as it's the natural order of things.
but not at anyone elses expense.:no:

[bonzo]

I agree 100% with Moose.It is a crying shame that lads/lasses feel they have to leave the sport as they reach a dead end.while we are on the sublect,I also don't think it is right for juniors to play up two age groups .

[Highlander]

while we are on the sublect,I also don't think it is right for juniors to play up two age groups .


Who's doing that?

I can't think of one child that is playing up 2 age groups (10's - 14's, 12's - 16's, 14's - 19's).

I can think of a few in the past that have done it, but they have been few and far between:

Jim Knights boy James: played 10's, 12's and 14's all in the one season.

Lee Jaimeson - 14, 16 19

David Coffey - 14, 16, 19

other than those very talented kids, I can't think of any others that have played up 2 age groups.

At the end of the day 12 year old Waine Gretsky was playing in a league for 18 year olds and there are 2 16 year olds in the NHL.

It is up to the coaches to determine whether a particular player is ready to play up an age group or even 2 age groups. I know that when David played his first game for the U19's as a 13 year old, I was a little anxious, I spoke to both Vito and Nick Poole at length about whether he was really ready to play at U19's and they both said that he was.

Kids should be allowed to play at their ability level, it's not about age.

Look at the teenagers playing in the EPL this season:

15 year old Stevie Lee, line 2, Defenceman for Hull.
16 year old Jamie Line, regular line 3 player for Bracknell.

Remember Bonzo, kids play sport for themselves (and their team) not for other kids parents, they need to be allowed to develop at their own natural rate and if they are talented, then they are going to bypass that STEP BY STEP progression that less talented players make.

That is not only the way things are in ice hockey, it is the way things are in all sports and the government, wants coaches to do this. they have even put a lot of money into an Able, Gifted and Talented program for young athletes leading up to the 2012 Olympics.
My youngest is on that program through his school.


Rather than being bitter, just be glad that these children are being given opportunities and help where you can to provide opportunities for others.

[bonzo]

Right.Lets get one thing straight here Highlander I AM NOT BITTER,why should I be

Imo talent is irrelevant,what is important is a kids safety,you raise your son as an example. Imagine if you would the scenario of him playing his first game with seniors,he take a totally legal check and is put out of the game for good or even crippled . No sport is worth that risk,How do you think the player that checked him would feel putting a kid out of the game for good.Yes some kids are big for their age but you cannot rule for that ie.A player must be over x feet tall or over y stones in weight.Safety has to come first

If you think I am bitter for some obscure reason because I would put a Juniors safety above all else then so be it?
Perhaps you should have asked my reasons rather than just calling me bitter?

[Highlander]

Bonzo,

Have you ever seen a junior badly injured in an EPL game?

Safety is a relative matter in sport:

1. Hockey is a contact sport at all age groups and injuries can and do happen at all age groups.

2. If you contact the hockey players association or the EIHA, they will confirm that juniors very rarely get injured in a senior game.

3. I am the PE and School sports co-ordinator for my school and in regular meetings with teachers from all the other primary schools in Bucks. We monitor health and safety in sport very carefully and see quite a few injuries some of which are serious in primary school football and rugby matches, we have also seen serious accidental injuries in field hockey games.

4. Do you think that anybody is suggesting that we stop school sports because there is a chance that they could get injured?
No and in fact there is a huge push to get even more children to play sport.

5. Safety is to do with preparation and skill and knowledge.
Preparation includes physical fitness, knowledge of dangerous or potentialy dangerous situations (eg going into the corners for pucks) and learning how to protect yourself and minimise the dangers. Skill plays a part as well because part of talent/skill is to recognise a potentially dangerous situation and to take steps to avoid it.

6. If the EIHA or their insurers felt that safety was an issue, then they would restrict players from playing up or playing senior games in the same way that they insist on them wearing full face cages and neck guards until they are 19.


Is safety your main concern, or do you have some other reason that you would like share?

[bonzo]

No I have not but that does not mean it wont happen its all about risk,if some want to take the risk then fine I think it is not worth taking.You say you are a sports co-ordinator? then you will know in most cases schools sports are played against kids or a similar age and development.

you ask if safety is may main concern or if I have some other reason i would like to share.I am fully aware hockey is contact at all age groups I have watched junior games,but there is a huge difference being checked by some one your own age and a full grown adult. Iplayed rugby as a teenager against adult teams and boy did it hurt.
If you want a straight answer ask a straight question.I have already said i am not bitter .

If you can't ask a straight question instead of these insinuations i have something to hide or some secret agenda then i won't even bother to reply to your posts

[Highlander]

I thought my post was fairly direct.

If you were bothered about safety, I think I have answered your concerns as best I can, If you have other reasons such as support for parents who's children are "theoretically" recieving reduced ice time because of players playing up or support as you have voiced before, for opportunities for Thunder players to play EPL before juniors, then you should take that up with Nick Poole. He makes those decisions not me or the players.

If you are truely worried about player safety, maybe you should have a word with the junior club chairwoman or the club's child protection officer, after all it is their job to ensure that players are not placed in situations where there is undue risk of them being hurt.

[bonzo]

I dont need to have hidden agenda,If i have something to say i say it.yes I am concerned about safety.i have seen adults get awful injuries and shudder to see small kids up against grown men.
I am still angry that you called me bitter like i have an axe to grind before you even bothered to ask the reasoning behind my initial post. As fo supporting other parents,they can do they own fighting(not the best word ).

As you say Nick Poole makes his decisions.thats up to him,let him get on with it.

[Highlander]

You are entitled to your opinion regarding safety as long as you accept that others my disagree with it. Free country and all of that...

My sincere appologies if the word bitter has upset you, that was not my intention, perhaps I should have said that you seemed a little over zealous in your statement:

bonzo: I agree 100% with Moose.It is a crying shame that lads/lasses feel they have to leave the sport as they reach a dead end.while we are on the sublect,I also don't think it is right for juniors to play up two age groups .

People very rarely make such statements as " crying shame" and "dead end" unless they have strong opinions on the subject. You have to expect that other people can and do have strong opinions to the contrary.

[bonzo]

likewise you have to appreciate my opinions are different from yours.